Abe Shreve and his team believe that the key to coaching is to demonstrate it not sell it.
This week we have part 2 of our amazing conversation with Abe Shreve.
In this episode Ron and Abe discuss what makes a good coach and the importance of personality tests to build the right team.
You can listen to all episodes of Agent Vs Lender on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you love Agent Vs Lender follow us on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram for all bonus content.
Abe Shreve and his team believe that the key to coaching is to demonstrate it not sell it.
This week we have part 2 of our amazing conversation with Abe Shreve.
In this episode Ron and Abe discuss what makes a good coach and the importance of personality tests to build the right team.
You can listen to all episodes of Agent Vs Lender on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and Google Play. If you love Agent Vs Lender follow us on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram for all bonus content.
And several overseas,
Ron Pippin:so this is so just to be clear, this is not your Business Maps Training. This is business. This is not necessarily Yeah, real estate because because I just want to make that clear because we've we've established that you've been in the real estate game. Yes building game. So you work with all kinds of businesses. Yes.
Abe Shreve:That is an important point. I'm really glad you drew that distinction because we have done a beautiful job of just confusing everyone on this. So I saw Maps KW Maps Coaching Keller Williams Maps Coaching is a real estate coaching company for Keller Williams agents. I mean, it was where I was born and raised in terms of coaching. Between that and Matt Townsend, however, we left we were a separate company. We don't coach realtors, okay, we coach everyone else, but you have people
Ron Pippin:but you the reason why I'm hesitating is because I know you have the resources, you have people that you prefer. If somebody if a realtor needs coaching,
Abe Shreve:yes, you have the ability to. All you got to do is go to mindmapscoach.com, okay. And there's a little assessment. Here's something to learn. Here's why there's an assessment, you basically schedule an assessment, what we believe is you don't sell coaching. you demonstrate it
Ron Pippin:like that.
Abe Shreve:Yeah, that's cool. And, you know, kind of bringing tying let's tie up a few of these things, because we have so many great points here. You said I didn't believe in the coaching. And I believe that if we were to go back and and and furl that it would be a combination of of you out coaching a coach, your your savvy business man. I have coached my coaches. Okay.
Ron Pippin:I'm gonna say I didn't believe I didn't I it's not that I didn't believe in coaching. Yeah. I just didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do it. Yes. I thought I need to anyone. Yeah, I thought I wanted to do it. Yeah. But when when reality really sat in, it was just like, I just, I just didn't want to do it. I didn't want to be held accountable. I didn't want somebody telling me what to do. I didn't want you know, I but then I really realized that. In order to grow. I got I got to get real and I gotta feel some pain. Whose agenda is it? It's it's really my agenda. Right? Yes. Okay. It's my agenda, your agenda, okay.
Abe Shreve:And when we gain commitment, then as a skilled coach, we're not going to pass this point. So, fear, let me give you an example. Okay, so I talked about written plan, clarity. Let's use, we've got so many points, I want to make sure we tie a few off. So we coach businesses, we have them kind of all over the place. We have a gentleman that owns a series, he owns a bunch of medical clinics. We have people in manufacturing. We have people in e commerce, we have people in all the service traits. Literally all of them, we have a hospital administrator. Until recently, I was coaching the National Sales Director for the largest pharmaceutical company in the world today. Wow, cool. He wasn't that when he hired me to coach him. But in the time that we were working together, he has since left that company is an amazing human being, and gone on to a new opportunity. That's really exciting, but we have them everywhere. And, and so I don't know what you're coaching in business space. I don't know what you're coaching, if you if you're not coaching to a plan, but most of our business owners, they've achieved a level of success. They're not broken. They're doing something right. However, they're bumping up against their next level. So if you're if you're a solopreneur, and it's time to hire, you can't do it all. Yeah. You're not going to be good at it. And why you haven't done it.
Ron Pippin:That's, yeah, that makes
Abe Shreve:total sense. Leadership is a tacit skill. Do you know what that is? No, why don't you explain I learned this from Matt Townsend, getting a tacit skill is a skill you have to feel to learn, like riding a bicycle. Okay, you can say to me, you know, if you feel like you're bleeding to the left, leaning to the right, you can explain balance, but until I get on a bicycle, and feel imbalance and go back and forth and just fall. That's a tacit skill. Okay, leading is a tacit skill. Okay, I believe you're going to ruin some really great talent. At least your relationship with them. Not adversarially but they're gonna leave your company. Yeah, sure, on the way to learning how to lead talented people. And the example I gave you of Craig Goodliffe a great example.
Ron Pippin:Okay, that's, I love that example. I, I love analogies like that, because it helps me understand you know, the bicycle. It's just like I get it. Yeah, I appreciate you bringing it to my level these.
Abe Shreve:One of my favorite quotes is from Carl Young also, I learned this from Matt, that which is most personal is most universal. And those things that we think we're uniquely struggling with, we're not. But that doesn't mean that we don't feel like no one will understand or get this because I'm just, you know, so we compensate in other ways. So we want to have a clear plan, these people aren't broken, if they've started something, they may not be profitable, that doesn't mean that there's not a pathway to it. And, you know, coaching, a great coaching relationship is going to be one that when you get off the line, you're clear, you're committed, you're connected to why it's important. You've got a fan that you respect in your coach, you also have a partner. So a lot of times in the coaching realm, you know, we have a tendency to, to really romanticize the high driver, don't we? I'm a D. I'm a I'm a, I'm a type A, your people say this. Yeah. And you know, and if you look at the disc test, if your mini
Ron Pippin:disc test, what have you, I disc test all of my employees because I want to know where they're at. Yes, I'm, I'm
Abe Shreve:an ID. So I'm at the I'm a, I'm a I'm an ID, are you? I'm 97. I 90, 3d. So my D isn't quite
Ron Pippin:as high as it used to be. Yeah. So I think I took my first disc test probably 10 years ago. And I've kind of backed off the D a little bit. And I don't know why that happens. But my my eyes really high might be I could tell you what it is probably 70-80. And my my S and C is really low.
Abe Shreve:I could I bet I could venture a guess.
Ron Pippin:Just a little older, a little more.
Abe Shreve:I think there's wisdom. But I also think you've now got people around you that are competent in what they're doing. And you no longer have to compensate for what you either haven't taught them or what you feel doesn't need isn't being done. Oh,
Ron Pippin:you know what? I really appreciate you saying that. Because I've never understood why does your personality profile change? Because like, I was like a high high D. And you know, and we can come across? Pretty. Like an a-hole. Yeah, I was gonna say not very nice. But yeah, yeah. So you can you can come across that way. And we don't intend to be. But I'm thinking Why? Why has that changed. But that puts it in a really good, perfect perspective for me, because I do I have some really good people that are on my team, really good people that work work with me and work for me. They,they, they take the pressure off of me. So I appreciate that.
Abe Shreve:And the truth is, once you get into behavioral assessment, and there are some that are that are much more comprehensive and advanced, I'd like to introduce you to ours, I'll, I'll take you through it if you'd like.
Ron Pippin:Okay, yeah I'd love that.
Abe Shreve:It's based on a massive data set. And your personality actually doesn't change. But how it shows up is influenced by your environment.
Ron Pippin:Okay. Okay. Make sense? Yeah.
Abe Shreve:And so, you know, the the high drivers, one of my favorites to coach because they come in, near when they start, they're like, hey, just tell me what to do. And I'll do it.
Ron Pippin:That's, that's the way I'm at. Yeah. And that's the way that sometimes.
Abe Shreve:So let's want to roleplay that. Say, you've hired me and you say that to me say that to me?
Ron Pippin:Say I just you just hired me?
Abe Shreve:No, no, no, I'm sorry. You've just hired me as your coach. And I want you to say to me, just tell me what to do. Okay, I'm really coachable. Just tell me what to do.
Ron Pippin:Just tell me what to do. I just want to do it. Yeah, I just, I just want to get going forward. Just tell me what to do. And I'll go do
Abe Shreve:it. Excellent. So Ron just so I understand correctly. What you're saying to me is, you want me just to tell you what to do to to be successful. And you're gonna do it.
Ron Pippin:Yes. That's That's what I'm saying.
Abe Shreve:Yeah, is there are you are you 100% committed?
Ron Pippin:Yes, I am.
Abe Shreve:Great. Go double your income.
Ron Pippin:Okay, how do I do that?
Abe Shreve:Alright, stepping out the roleplay okay.I love this. I love to play with this a minute because what high driver lives like that. What high driver likes to be told what to do.
Ron Pippin:Yeah, right.
Abe Shreve:That is a they are filling you with crap, right? Yeah, right. You got to earn the opportunity. And the way that you earn it is you you have to get real with them on their business. Yeah. Now we call it the art and science. We call our coaching methodology, the art and science of coaching. The science is the biology of business. All all businesses require the science, all businesses require a P&L. They require a budget. They require a growth plan. We do 10 year business plan and forecast with our clients. Because when you hire talented people, you need to point them to the future so that they know when I succeed in this role. There's a lot of places I could go.
Ron Pippin:Yeah, yeah. Well, and and what that brings to mind is, but back to the disc test. A lot of the people that I hire are, where I'm weakened. And because I don't want a lot of these unless they're salespeople or lessor loan officers, unless they're, you know, those are those people I want. I want them there. But a lot of my process and a lot of a lot of the people that are in the process side of it. I don't I don't want them there. In the drive as a driver? Yeah, I don't want them as a driver. I want them. I'm weak in my s and my C. Yeah. And I need people that are detail oriented. Because I am, I'm like, not only do do I not want to do it, but I don't like doing it. Yeah. So I got to have people that are really strong there. So that I don't have to do that stuff,
Abe Shreve:like a great business will hire the right person for the right role. And part of the way they'll know that person is right, is they will understand their natural behaviors. I agree. Because if their natural behaviors line up with the optimal natural behavior for a given role, then that person in that job will receive energy.
Ron Pippin:Yeah, I agree. You are I found that I found that out.
Abe Shreve:You are smart enough to do any job in your company. It'll drain you.
Ron Pippin:Yeah, so actually, I just had a conversation with Taylor, who is my, he's my business partner, he's my son, really great business mind. And we had the same conversation. It's just like, I can I can do processing, I can I can do what my loan assistants do, I can do all that stuff. It just takes me a lot longer. And by the end of the day, I have gotten 1/3 of it done that they would have done because they love it. And it's just it's a chore for me to do those things. And so I find that when I hire those kind of people that love that kind of stuff, like the process is so much more smooth, and it's moving forward much faster if I just get out of the way and just let them do their job. It's just like, so much better. I think process is so much better for everybody.
Abe Shreve:And you create an optimal client experience.
Ron Pippin:Right? In a right because now the clients aren't aren't ticked off, because why is everything taken too long? Because I'm doing it.
Abe Shreve:Yeah. So I asked you, yeah. Why was it so hard to learn that?
Ron Pippin:It's hard to let go. Why? I don't know. It took me a long time to figure out why. And now. And now I'm to the point of what else can I get off my plate? Yeah. But I took me a long time to get there. So
Abe Shreve:that we all travel through phases of development, personal and professional. And I remember can can I share a story? Sure. How are we doing on time? I don't have that. It's gonna be like three hours.
Ron Pippin:Where we're 45 minutes so we Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're good. Okay, I'm enjoying it. So you know, I'm great. I'm hopefully everyone else is
Abe Shreve:okay. With this is boring to you right now, then you can you can stop listening and we will not be offended. Right. Exactly. Don't tell us because Ron and I have a tendency to cry when it no. So I was at a conference. And here's what's funny. Gary Keller has been a mentor of mine for ever since I read his book, The Millionaire real estate agent and started to look at the real estate business as a business. And think of it differently. And so now I'm coaching his people. They are the players and I am blessed to be their partner and I'm loving it. And so the first time I talked one on one with Gary Keller, I was on stage with him in front of 18,000 people. You
Ron Pippin:were on stage?
Abe Shreve:Yes. with Gary Keller. We're at a conference and he had he because I was coaching some of you folks. He had me up there. Okay to talk about coaching.
Ron Pippin:We wait, wait, wait, wait.
Abe Shreve:So the first time you met Gary Keller, you were on stage? No. The first time I talked one on one with Gary. Oh,
Ron Pippin:so you only talk? Yeah, well that's the I'm probably getting into a whole different story here but you're coaching all of his clients but you've never talked one on one with them until you were on stage with them. Yeah, that just fascinates me.
Abe Shreve:Well. This again shows you this is important. Our our clients, they are the they are the ones doing the work. I mean, no kidding when Gary, when we launched this business, and I should tell you that story, I'll just tell you this part when when because I want to finish this other when we launched this business, Gary said to me, what's gonna keep you up at night. And I knew exactly what it was. Because I had been a coach, I traveled the country with my family coaching on the road. I said, I'm moving from the one who helps you get clear on what to do when you go do it, to the one doing it, and I am very aware of the difference. So it comes back to the reason I was I was important to Gary, because I played an important role to people that are important to him. And and I really think that's really important, because in the in the coaching space, it's hard as the coach to not get a big head to not think you're all that. But I think because I'm also a client. That sounds silly, huh? I'm not just the president. I'm a client, I think because I, I have a coach, you don't graduate out of coaching, right? Because you never stop developing. In fact, our company, I've never been surrounded by more talented people. I've never been more intimidated by the people we've hired. I've never been more grateful. And I've never been more willing to say, you know, this is this is not the result of me.
Ron Pippin:Well, the practice in perspective, the elite athletes have a coach. That's it. Yes. So and they can't get better. And it doesn't mean that the coach can play the game better than them. But they understand the physics they understand. They understand my new details to help them get better.
Abe Shreve:So I was at a conference with Gary, I spoke, I sat down, I didn't speak he interviewed me. And thankfully, I didn't screw it up. It was nerve wracking, couldn't see the audience couldn't hear them. So if you said something he thought was slightly funny. I couldn't really hear them. But Gary and I just had a great, he's a really wonderful interviewer. If you ever get the chance. I gotta make sure you do.
Ron Pippin:That that's intimidating. But okay,
Abe Shreve:let's It doesn't matter. You know, I mean, it's like, it's about No, I stepping into the next big room.
Ron Pippin:Yeah, I agree. I love it. So
Abe Shreve:the next person you had up there was a real estate agent that he held up in front of his entire company, which at the time, was probably around 150,000 agents worldwide. And two years later to be the largest real estate company in the world. And so he, he had this agent up there, and this guy was awesome. And his name is Kenny Klaus. He's in Arizona. And he has he has a farming system. He worked for FedEx. And he took his FedEx running the route into real estate. And Kenny is you know, he's 6'2 220 solid muscle, big teddy bear. You can't get that guy talking about his people where he's in emotional. You know, Kenny, he's built a really big successful business, I mean, millions of dollars a year. But he's committed to his folks. So Kenny, he's up there. Gary's interviewing Kenny, and he's he's held Kenny up as an example to the whole company of this is how you can do it. So after Kenny, Gary's gonna say some things and then people are gonna flood the coaching booth, because they've heard about coaching and then they you know, they're at a conference. Sure. So I walked out to the booth to kind of be there to help. People aren't out yet. And I feel a hand on my neck and I turn around and it was Kenny. 6'2 212-220, something like that. And if you didn't know, he's a big freakin teddy bear. He's really intimidating. And so I, he would laugh if you heard me say that out loud. But he was. And he said to me, I need a coach. That's just consider this, Ron. Yeah. They probably did. Close to 200 million in volume that year. It's an awesome business.
Ron Pippin:Yeah. A bunch of business. That's it. That's an incredible business.
Abe Shreve:Unbelievable, right? Yeah. And again, for those that say, I could do it if I had that many people have, you've never paid the price to lead people. Yeah. And so here he is. He's just been held up in front of the, you know, the, at the time that 2nd largest real estate company in the world seems to be the first as the example of how to run the business. And the sec, when you get off the stage, you don't run out to the vendor hall. You know what you do? You go to the green room with everyone else, you eat the free food, and you ask everyone, did I make any sense?
Ron Pippin:Yeah, I can see that.
Abe Shreve:Right. Sure. monitors back there. And people are watching and you know what you're hoping is did I screwed up? And the food's good. And those people are fun. Yeah. But he didn't. He got off. They took his microphone off. He ran out to the booth. And I didn't know Kenny we had met once. Remember, I told you about the problem child. Yeah, he had introduced because he I don't know, he's not the problem child. Okay. All right problem child is named Devin and Devin and I are still friends to this day. But I was coaching though I took get Devin, I had a great coaching relationship, which is how I got into Gary's room. Because things went well with Devin and I. And so they just started feeding me that client, so I was really blessed. And what they didn't know is, you know, they thought I was a brilliant coach, but what they were really hearing was combination of Brad Wilson, Matt Townsend, Tony DiCello, Gary Keller, you know, yeah. And and someone committed someone who had succeeded and failed in business and was committed to being their partner. And was was a dog on a bone when it comes to their business plan. So Kenny grabs me says, I need a coach. So he There he is, he's the game's just on stage, as the model and his feeling inside is, I need a coach. So I said, I was surprised. I said, Well, why do you say that? Which by the way, when someone wants to come and sign up for your service, there's a lot better ways to get into it. Okay, let's talk about your business. Why was my good? I was so shocked. I was like, why? And he says, I want to feel like a business owner. Wow. Now, if I'm full of myself, I'm gonna say things like, we could do that. And you're or, or I'm going to start hunting for things that are wrong, that I can fix. Well, tell me about the people you hired. Because coaches do that a lot. They start to find what's broken the wrong approach. I don't know anything about your business. And the fact that we're talking about your business, and you have one tells me, you've got you've succeeded at some level, and you've got the DNA to do it. And if we're a match, I'm 100% in. So I took him to a table, and we sat down, I said, What would help you feel like a business owner? Listen to the wording. I'm using his words. Yeah. I wanted to say, Are you crapping me? Like,
Ron Pippin:I know, I know. I get it. Yeah,
Abe Shreve:you have a huge business. He said, I don't, I don't know what's going on with my money. I know, I'm profitable. I know I make money, but I'm just not good at the finances. And by the way, I wasn't either. As a coach, yeah. We have five models that we coach to, for the business. And the financial model was my weakest. But I'm, I'm, I'm there are some that I'm good at. has a just to my own, there's some that I do really well in the coaching world with. And what what, what are you good at? I'm really good at organizational hiring, leading. I'm really I am now really good at business planning forecasts. I'm really good at the financial piece. But here's why. It was the realization that I have, at the time I had 63 clients 63 of the top clients in our industry, every one of them in the top 500. You know, the publication that comes out? Yeah, everyone, and many of them in the top 100. And about eight of them in the top 20. intimidating, right? Yeah, that is come to play, but they come to play. Yeah. So. But we're not talking about the financials, and they're okay with it. But I realized, Oh, I don't know this. And so one of the beauties of being a coach, when the great things is, we know what we know, because the people we get to work with, yeah, and the benefit that they receive is the aggregate knowledge we gained from working with others. You know, so that that's a whole other story of how we do that. But we're really intense on that. And so, you know, I said to Kenny, this was when I committed to learn, I said, I bought time, and I'll, I'll get us to a point here, I bought some time and I said, What would make you feel like, you know, how, what would what do you need to feel like a business owner? And I want to say, because you sounded pretty good. I said, What would cause you to feel like a business owner and he said, I want to know my finances better? And I said, Well, here's what we'll do. And honestly, this was a moment. I didn't know what to say. And I just kind of came up with this in the moment, but I'm really glad I did. I said, if you will, if you will take an assignment from me for two weeks. If you do it every day, and check in with me. I will add you to my schedule. And he said I'll do it. And I said I want you to read out loud every Do you have a p&l? Yeah, I paid bookkeeper, I have all those. I just never look at it. I said okay, so I want you to read your profit and loss statement every day. out loud, like a book. Left to right out loud. Do you want me to have others there? Nope. But you can't read it in quiet like in your mind. I want you to go to a place that you're allowed to read it out loud. Now ask me why I had him do that.
Ron Pippin:I was just going to ask you that. I was gonna say well, so what is the difference between just sitting there and reading it and actually speaking it well that we know that how you read matters and actually wanting to study it.
Abe Shreve:And if you're our brains ability to process information on the written page, when we don't vocalize and we don't sub vocalize it, it's it's eight, eight times faster. We actually create problems for ourselves. When we're reading when we, we sub vocalize, we say the words in our mind or under our breath, and it slows us down. And it causes our brain to to fixate on the lines. This is all the Evelyn Woods rapid reading material causes our eyes to stop and fixate. When that happens, it breaks our concentration. That's the reason why you'll read a page and look back and say, I don't know what I read. So I wanted him to read it out loud. I wanted, I did want to slow him down. Look at it, read it out loud. The purpose was to demystify this thing. How are we doing, Jake? How much time we got over there? Yeah. All right. Let's see if we can do this, like 10 minutes. Okay. I wanted to demystify the document. And I didn't know what to tell him. He handed me his p&l, I wouldn't know what to say. This is the beauty of coaching, I don't have to be the expert. We're gonna do that work together. He's not alone. So he calls me on day four. I found$2700 worth of reoccurring monthly subscriptions that we no longer use. Now, what would you say to him?
Ron Pippin:If they no longer use him? I would say cancel him. Right.
Abe Shreve:Yeah, that's one thing you could say. There's lots of things. But remember how he started this? Want to feel like a business owner? I said, How do you feel? I feel like a business owner. Now, he was really profitable. He was probably 33-34% profitable. And for a business that has a fixed monthly, you know, monthly expenses of around $150,000. Let us know when you got to fix that. All right. I just don't want to miss that. Does it turn off automatically? Sorry, I'm talking to the tech genius. So for a company that has 150,000 in monthly expenses. Now, someone heard that just now and they were like, Oh, I would never Well, you probably would also not be the company that produced a million dollars in revenue every month. Right? Yep. there's a there's a way to a business. Yeah. So. So recovering. $2700 doesn't take a company that's not profitable, and make it profitable in a case like this, even though they were profitable. It doesn't. It doesn't save a business that's in trouble. And they weren't in trouble. And remember, he wanted to feel like a business owner, right? What it does is it empowers that owner. It demystifies the finances. He found something, yeah, tighten it up. And by the time that two weeks was over, and he came into my schedule, he looked at those finances, we looked at him minimum every month, the entire time we worked together. And he would come and say we need to hire we need to make the next hire. How did we know that? Because that's part of the plan. When we hit this level of production, we need to hire this, these two people and this administrative person to support them. And in his world, it would take about six months for someone to go from new to what I like to call trained trained enough that they are they are they what's the word? How do I say they are? Oh, my gosh, I have this little thing I came up with but they're, they're predictable. Like they, they they know enough now that we can count on some results. Okay. So we need to start looking for those candidates and going through the hiring process, often six months before, we think we're going to hit that revenue goal. Because when we hit the revenue goal, our plan has said we will spend this amount on those positions. Do you see how it works? Yeah, totally. So we don't wake up one day and say, Oh, my gosh, we're falling apart. We have a plan. But But things come up. And you know, one of the things we say all the time is that we reserve the right to benefit from what we know today that we didn't know yesterday. And so if a hire comes along, and we're like we really need someone to do this certain role. We always ask how do we fund it? And this is fun for someone like Kenny that is demystify this document because we can go to his finances and say, it's there. It's right here. Go make that hire. They're not just making it because they have to. Yeah, they've earned it. That's, that's a business owner. You're right. But this all started with someone who had an incredibly successful business just didn't feel like a business because of one aspect. You know, and so sometimes a coach, a great coach will, you know, sometimes you'll come to the call down In a great coach, we'll hear what's not being said. You know, I may say, hey, Ron, how you doing? Are you ready to go? Because we dive straight to it, we got 30 minutes. And I'll tell you the keys, you want me to tell you the keys to a great coaching call? Yes, I do. In our world, we we do a lot to establish the relationship. And we have tools. And so you're the business plan that we create. When we start a call, we're both looking at it. You're on your computer, I'm on mine, we're both looking at it. You can see the homework, the commitments that you made last week, you can see it same as me. And we see the goal versus actual updates. So that all along the way. We're seeing how we're trending. Right, yep. And so we have all these things, your org chart. We build all that in there, we build it together. And so I mean, you start every call with following up on the commitments from last week, and checking in on what I call the 10,000 foot red flag metrics. There the goal versus actual metrics that if we're, if we're low in any of those we knew we know to go dive and look. So about the kiss, the kiss of death and coaching is, we do the work for you to identify the right commitment. You go and do it this week and I don't follow up. Yeah. What does that do? By the way?
Ron Pippin:If there's no follow up, if you the commitment level on your part isn't as great. So you have an out.
Abe Shreve:And right, you're paying me? Yeah. You You don't become frustrated, you become bitter.
Ron Pippin:Yeah. And I've had that before in other coaches, where there was no follow up. And you're right. I felt like what am I paying for?
Abe Shreve:Yeah. So I have this personal allergic reaction when, when a coach will say something like, Ron, you ready for the best call ever? I don't. I'm not I I'm not a manufacturer of emotion. Yeah. I, you know, I'm plenty emotional. But we don't need that. What I what I want someone to say to me is, Ron, I have thought all week about these incredible commitments that you've made, I cannot wait to hear how it's gone. I know. I know, there's a chance you hit a snag. So let's say it was 10 appointments, let's just say for just an easy example. I can see right on our coaching scorecard that you only got eight. You're probably gonna say to me, I only got eight. You may be defensive, because you're trying to help coach me, you're not going to because this isn't my commitment. Right? It's yours. Right? Yeah, we're not going to leave it. So you, you may try now coach me and and look, if we're in rapport, I'm gonna say, Ron. Look, just formality aside, it feels a little like you're trying to out coach me and talk yourself into why this is okay. Am I am I reading that correctly? You're skilled at this. You'd be amazed at how many are like, yes. I didn't do it. And I don't want to feel bad about it.
Ron Pippin:Yeah. Because most people would say I got eight.
Abe Shreve:Yep. Now what I've learned, what I've learned, you think most people say that what I've learned is most people that hire coach, they wouldn't actually say that. They come in, they're like, I only got eight. Oh, I only got eight. The temptation is the coaches to say the commitment was 10 and jump on their throat and play the tough guy. And we're gonna get there. I promise I'll jump on your throat. But I say that, like one of the we call them ninja tips. One of our ninja tips of coaching is number one, don't be bulletproof. So if you ask a questions about questions, say that to them. Ron that was a terrible question. Let me try that again. You didn't hire me to be perfectly, you know, to say every sentence perfect the first time you hired a partner. So if I asked you something, and it's a leading question, or it's gonna it's a bad question, I'm going to tell you, it's a terrible question. Let me do it again. Right. Yep. Fair enough. We're working together.
Ron Pippin:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
Abe Shreve:you're I'm not the expert. You're not alone. The expert together, we're doing this. So the other thing is the other thing is one of our other ninja tips is we start with what you did. And
Ron Pippin:when you say when you say what you did, is it like, what did you do this week as it is like we keep blocking
Abe Shreve:we're gonna we can we can we get to start with a focus. Okay, you always start with one. So we can start with the focus of what you didn't do. Okay? Or we can start first with what you did do and then go to what you didn't do. Okay. So, the other thing too is when you're going to when you're going to clock him in the nose. Tell him so I would say this, we come to the call. And I say, Ron, I, I can see it. It's in front of me. So I know you didn't get your 10 By the way, If you got eight, did you fail? Did you just take the week off? I've been in that chair. You know, the crazy thing about coaching Ron, is that doesn't matter how much you know, as a coach, when you when you when you sit on the other side of the table in your client, you feel everything that every client feels.
Ron Pippin:Yeah. And I think when I'm sitting on this side of the chair, when the coach, I know whether I really tried and I just didn't get 10. And, and if my previous week was six, and I got eight this week, even though my goal was 10. It's just like, you know what, I still did better than last week or the last month, you know, I'm still moving forward. Yeah, I still have a little bit to go. And I didn't now if I took if I only took in the decided to take days off, or hours off and just got on social media and didn't do what I was supposed to do, then I would feel bad. But I don't know I I maybe I'm different. Maybe I'm just weird, but I think I would feel like Hey, I got eight. Yeah,
Abe Shreve:I got eight. Well, you would say that. I would I would say that to say that. And I would say let's talk about the eight. What worked better than you thought it would. What did you do? That was new, that you believe if you were to do that, again, it would achieve the same result we would dive, we would debrief the eight. Okay, cool. And I would say when in the week did you realize looking back now, when in the week, did you realize you weren't on pace for 10? Looking back, if we could just turn the clock back. When was the moment that you could have adjusted your activities? And and got one more notice. I didn't say got to 10? Yeah, just got to one more. Because in my objective is to help you improve every week. And sometimes it will be I'm going to play tough, but when I do I'm going to tell you, I'm gonna say all right, Ron, I'm going to I'm going to pop you right in the nose. Are you ready? Are you okay? Yep, I'm getting this 1000 times. I'm good. Do I need to call anyone? You're good? Yep. Okay, good. When did you decide this commitment was no longer important to you?
Ron Pippin:Wow, that's right. You did pop me in the nose.
Abe Shreve:But I want you knows what happened. You're, let's say you're a driver. Yeah. I prepped us. You did. And if I just said to you, you said I got eight. And I said, When did you decide this commitment wasn't important to you? You're defensive.
Ron Pippin:Right, exactly. So the prep, I think, for the prep. And I felt like like I wasn't defensive, because you told me
Abe Shreve:that you were coming in hot. Yeah, I'm coming. disappointed if I didn't do this. You ready? And you handle it? Yep. Yes. What the way if the way that I just the way, this visually, to me is what I've done. Now, in doing that, by the way, if you're leading people do that, when you're going to hit them hard,
Ron Pippin:I was just gonna say that I was just gonna say that I can take this and bring this into other parts of my business, or other parts of my life. So this is this is really this is really profound. If I hope people have stayed with us long enough to hear this part. Because this is awesome.
Abe Shreve:So visually, what we've done is you and I, instead of me against you. We've linked arms, and we're looking at the goal and the objective. Yeah. Now look, things do happen in a business. Yeah. So you may say to me, I was on my way to get eight and my assistant quit. Now I can be the hard nosed coach. That's like, there's no excuse. Yeah, but really all that tells you as I'm no longer in touch with business. Yeah. We may get on the phone. So I again, let's tie some loose ends together. You start every call, you set up the next call with how you end this call. Ron, I'm excited for this week. When we start the next call, what are you committing to? And by the way, when you tell me we both see it go on the screen. Ron's gonna do this, this and this. You know, it's funny as when, when when I say to you, Hey, did you did you interview? Did you set up those three interviews? And you say, No, I will type. He didn't do it. Because there's a place to type follow up. And you'll hear people go ouch. They'll say, Oh, I'm sorry. How would you prefer to say that? Oh, then they'll be like, Well, no, you're not wrong. And I'll say, well, let's get into it, then walk me through it. And so if you go to a seminar, and you learn something really great, it's a sprint. Oh, that was amazing. I learned it all really fast. I'm good to go. I'm doing what I can to Yeah, to put it in place and you often aren't able to put it in place, but you're coaching is a marathon. It's week in week out. I agree. And the goal may be 10. But you know, I've had people I've had people I've worked with where let's use 10 The goal was 10 like 10 listings, do we need to go
Ron Pippin:Pretty soon, okay, that's okay, I'll do that we might, we might, we might. Okay, let's keep going.
Abe Shreve:The goal was 10. And but they've never done more than four. So is it the right goal? And what I tell people is I don't care how big your objective is, what I care about is, do you have a really clear plan of the actions required to achieve that objective? And if you have a clear plan for those activities, and a way to measure and you're committed to those, let's do it. So anyway, you know, coaching, I think for me, if you're in business, and you don't have a coach, you're simply making it more difficult than it needs to be
Ron Pippin:100% 100% in agreement with you there. Yep. I'm a fan of coaching. Yeah, me too. It has been a pleasure to talk to you. I got like I was enthralled with this. This, you know, and I'm thinking through my head of what I need to do different. And so you've inspired me and I hopefully we've inspired a few people as well along the way. Well, which I'm sure we have. Well, we
Abe Shreve:would love to, again, it's mymapscoach.com.
Ron Pippin:Yes. I was just gonna ask the best way for them to reach out if if they want to.
Abe Shreve:Yeah, I mean, it's my mapscoach.com and you can request an assessment and we just get on and the assessment is we look at your business. Good, and nothing else you leave with a greater understanding of what you want to work on. And then and then I would just Jake and I would be profoundly honored if people would go and give our podcasts to listen Choose Difficult.
Ron Pippin:Yes. So anywhere where's where's your podcast anywhere
Abe Shreve:you find podcasts, Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, and it's called what? Choose Difficult
Ron Pippin:Choose Difficult. Yep.
Abe Shreve:And you can go to choosedifficult.com cool, and you can learn about us there. We are just coming into the end of our second season. And we have, we have amazing people Bob Taylor, the, the founder and owner of Taylor guitars, throw Bailey, we have done Jaeger who has written 32 books, 11 of which are New York Times bestsellers. Liz Wiseman, the author of Multipliers, you know, I mean, it just goes we have we have really great people. But what's interesting about our podcast is we're telling their story. Along the way, where did they get stuck? What were the lessons they learned, they're telling their story, and then we just kind of narrate so we'd love you to give it a listen.
Ron Pippin:I'm definitely gonna go check it out. So yeah, appreciate that. If you want to get hold of me or my team, you can find us at The Pippin Team. No Actually, pippinteam.mortgage, or you can give us a call at 801-628-7667. call or text us and that will wrap up another episode of Agent Vs Lender. We'll see you next week.